A friend posted this article about the recent launch of the “Go East” Victoria’s Secret line on their Facebook page, and a comment exchange ensued between some folks, myself included. I thought some points that were raised deserved a response (and a public one at that, not caught up in the FB privacy settings). I’ve paraphrased and bolded them here + added some responses.
- How is this racist? A geisha is a sexual figure in East Asia already.
This line isn’t just sexualizing the geisha—the entire LINE is all about “sexy exotic Asian-ness,” and it’s all predicated on a commodified, simplified, and inauthentic view of “exotic asian culture.” For the purposes of Victoria’s Secret, “going east” means “let’s put some cherry blossoms and red on some lingerie and make our models wear chopsticks in their hair and OH OH don’t forget the kimono!” Of course it brings in the geisha as one of the lingerie styles because that’s one of the easiest things to sexualize here in the U.S., since so many people are familiar with the concept. Speaking of which, most of us have a pretty simplified and misinformed idea about what being a geisha entails anyway, and the level of education and training geishas got/get as well as the diversity of their actions/professions is not something a lot of people know about. Most folks just think “yeah, a geisha, a Japanese prostitute with the white face and stuff, like in Mulan or something.”
- Sexual fantasy doesn’t indicate personally racist/bigoted beliefs. Wanting to dress like a geisha doesn’t make someone a racist.
Sexual attitudes and desires don’t happen inside of a magic bubble. We all have the responsibility to ask ourselves why we like what we do instead of just saying “AH WELL I JUST LIKE STUFF WHO KNOWS WHY.” Just as we adopt racist, sexist, etc.-ist beliefs in other areas of our lives, we adopt them in our sexual life and sexuality too. It’s our responsibility to interrogate what we want and how that intersects with the world around us. It’s like saying “yeah I only date white people, I dunno, I just find them more attractive.” Beauty is not this magically 100% objective thing–it’s very conditioned by our upbringing and cultural surroundings, and if those have racism embedded into them, you betcha your ideas of beauty will also have racism embedded unless you actively work to fight that and deconstruct it as much as possible.And even if someone doesn’t want to dress like a geisha due to “explicitly racist” reasons, it involves a degree of subconscious entitlement to do so–that “yes, I can wear this, because I can do whatever I want, I have access to these pieces of this culture and I don’t have to think about the context or the impact of this choice.” It’s that dismissiveness, that disregard, that idea that all things are possible/accessible and OK because “I’m not actually a racist.” Racism isn’t just lynchings and cross-burning and denying people jobs; it’s way more complicated and pervasive than that.
- Taking this line down and not carrying foreign-oriented lines of lingerie = just as offensive as carrying them.
There’s a difference between carrying a line catered to a particular community and appropriating that community’s culture. There’s also a difference between actually trying to provide positive and accurate representation of a culture for that culture (or even for society) and doing something simplified to purely make profit and create the newest fashion collection. Here, the intent as well as the outcome are important. Furthermore, no, these things are not “equally offensive.”
Of course, product advertising and these sexy lingerie things are never going to fully capture the entire history of whatever they’re symbolizing/hinting at, but when it’s done along already tense axes, where there have been lots of struggles between those who are creating the products and those who they are “depicting,” it’s a problem. Why? Because it’s once again a reiteration of the same power dynamics. In a climate where there are still a lot of anti-Asian feelings (check out this website for example!), it’s just one more way in which U.S. culture, especially non-asian/specifically-white U.S. culture, asserts that it can take whatever it wants from these cultures for its own purposes, demonize the fuck out of those same cultures, and not be held accountable.
So now I have to be politically correct when I fantasize too.Call the Dream Police, cuz I'm guilty as hell!Sounds like a lot of chatter from some ugly broads who aren't making anyone's fantasy.
^"primarily dating Asian men", I meant
Seriously? No one is trying to take your Asians away. But if you are interested in primarily dating, shouldn't you be more invested than anyone in making sure your love of their culture isn't disrespectful?
i think homosexuality is genetic/biologically innate (there seems to be substantial evidence supporting this) but that perceptions of beauty and attractiveness are affected by socialization and culture. It sounds like what Mz. Aida is encouraging people to do is more akin to asking certain gay men to investigate why they prefer other men with specific features and phenotypes, not why they like men in general. This is perfectly reasonable given the amount of media inundating our minds, and the very narrow standards and stereotypes it proliferates.
Uh, way to entirely jump to inaccurate conclusions? I never said we had to fight our attraction to particular kinds of people, but ask ourselves how our preferences came to be and what things they may have been conditioned by. I'm asking for critical introspection and analysis, not inherently that people become attracted to everyone. I'm not guilting or even TRYING to guilt people for having preferences, but if I'm guilting them for anything, it's for thinking that desire is this magical thing that exists somehow outside of society and its systems (because it's NOT).And again, if you read what I wrote, I said we have to "actively work to fight against that" and the "that" refers to "having racism embedded into our beauty standards. You're absolutely entitled to be attracted to whomever you want, that's totally correct. And I'm absolutely entitled to say "EXAMINE THAT."
"It's like saying "yeah I only date white people, I dunno, I just find them more attractive." Beauty is not this magically 100% objective thing–it's very conditioned by our upbringing and cultural surroundings, and if those have racism embedded into them, you betcha your ideas of beauty will also have racism embedded unless you actively work to fight that and deconstruct it as much as possible."I refuse to feel guilty or "actively work to fight that and deconstruct (my ideas of beauty) as much as possible" for mostly being attracted to Asian men. It's disgusting that you want to guilt people about not wanting to date/ have sex with a certain race ("actively work to fight that" — are you serious?) because you're not physically attracted to them. I'm absolutely entitled to be attracted mostly to Asian men, and everyone else is entitled to have a racial preference (if they happen to have one) when it comes to dating. How dare you tell people to "fight" their attraction to a certain type of person? Why don't you tell a gay man to "fight" his attraction to men?